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daniel
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2005 07:15 pm |
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I am a pofessional photographer, working both analog and digital.
In November last year unfortunately I bought a Canon EOS 20D digital camera. It's chip had many errors (about 200 spots in the image). I own a "Canon professional card" and wanted to use Canon professial service - but Canon Switzerland said: this doesn't exist anymore. Canon itself does not provide any service anymore. It's now a "outsourced" service company. Must be a "repair everything company" or something like that. Canon refused to exchange the faulty camera body but wanted to "repair" it thru this repair-company.
Well, 3 weeks later (that's a long time if your camera is part of your professional tools!) the camera came back "repaired and controled". It was even worse than before!
Finally I received a new body. A first test: again a lot of spots on the chip. Absolutely unusable for professional needs.
Well, now I have a third new body. It still has some 20 spots, but they are more on the border only and they are not that strong as with the first two bodies. Spots only get visible when almost fully closing the aperture. So I accepted this camera - thinking that Canon is just not able to produce fully working camera chips!
I wonder if anybody has a Canon EOS 20D that has no spots on the chip (please be sure to close aperture when testing: spots will be visible only then).
I am also curious what experiences other photographers had with Canon.
(I am usually working with a Hasselblad and I am used to a really other kind of service...).
The attached sample (taken with the first body) is small and jpg. I marked only the most significant spots. If you look at a raw file in a high contrast one could break out in tears!
Attachment: MUSTER3.jpg (Downloaded 71 times)
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karl_huang
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2005 10:30 pm |
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I own a 20d. I never had spots in my pictures. Or let me check it carefully. I have'nt really tested
it fully yet.
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admin
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Posted: Tue Apr 19th, 2005 01:01 am |
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daniel - i read a lot of forums and have never seen a reference to this many problem with a sensor - what about when you take a shot on plain black or white - dead pixels often show up on a plain black background and on white might mean it has chickenpox 
do some test files if it is consistent in location on image when compared to the prior to the repair (i use this term loosely) take it back and show them and demand a replacement - November is a long time ago though - but it unacceptable.
good luck
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daniel
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Posted: Tue Apr 19th, 2005 08:29 am |
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Last edited on Tue Apr 19th, 2005 08:33 am by daniel
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daniel
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Posted: Tue Apr 19th, 2005 08:29 am |
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Last edited on Tue Apr 19th, 2005 08:32 am by daniel
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daniel
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Posted: Tue Apr 19th, 2005 08:31 am |
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Thanks for the answers. I've read about the similar problem with the same camera somewhere in a german forum a while ago.
Of course the spots appear on exactly the same position in every picture. When I bought the camera I just checked the functions and it appeared fine to me. But the shock came after I used it the first time for a "real" photo session with manual exposure, in "raw" format: every photo I took with closed aperture had the same spots. This was the first camera body from which you've seen the last attachement. After the "repair" it had the same spots as before plus some new ones.
When I got the second body I just took some manual raw shots with closed aperture looking up to the sky. I took 8 photos: of course the spots were completely different to those of the first body, but within the series of this body again they all had the same spots (see or download http://www.daniel-bauer.com/canon/IMG_0008.jpg - the file shows the spots of the second body, its lowest jpg quality, file size 137 KB, but original pixel size). Isn't it terrible?
I want to point out, that I took the camera directly out of the original delivery box, without taking the lens away and then did those shots. It can't be just some dust on the surface of sensor that could be removed. The guy in the german forum wrote that the dust is directly on the sensor under the protection coating. This is (I guess) the reason why the "repair" was not sucessful.
I've also tried to shake the camera, put it a bit hardly on the table etc. to see if the spots "move" (thought, if it was dust if would have to move this way); it didn't...
Yeah, I guess it's the chickenpox. There must be a highly infectious epidemic in Canon's factory
Thats one thing. Errors can happen (even though I think it should not be possible to receive 3 faulty bodies in a series..).
But what I really wonder is this kind of "service" for professionals. I received glossy prospectuses from canon, pointing out their outstanding service for professionals, they've sent a personalized "professional card" to me and then, when I need the service, it just doesn't exist anymore.
I also wonder why cameras aren't checked before they are delivered. It seems to me that quality control was outsourced, too: to the customer.
Is this a Swiss Canon problem of is this "service" usual everywhere? What are your experiences?Last edited on Tue Apr 19th, 2005 08:33 am by daniel
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Cwmacgregor
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Posted: Fri Apr 29th, 2005 01:02 pm |
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OK I'll ask since I'm new here :p
Are you taking the photographs on all cameras with the same lens(s) ? I know you probably checked that before but i gotta ask 
I know you said you did it by taking the camera out the box with the lens and took photos right away but didnt it all come in seperate boxes? If not theres yer problem maybe?
I am buying a 20D later this month so i hope its not a common thing if it is the sensor
Last edited on Fri Apr 29th, 2005 01:06 pm by Cwmacgregor
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daniel
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Posted: Fri Apr 29th, 2005 04:34 pm |
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Hi Cwmacgregor
Yes, I took all the photos with the same lens (standard lens that comes with the Canon 20D package).
Lens and body come in the same box, but you're right: I first had to take the lens cover from the body and mount the lens.
However: the spots are not a lens problem, it's defintively a sensor problem. When I look in Google for "Canon EOS 20D Flecken" (which is german...) I get 254 results now... If you understand german you can have a view at http://www.guenstiger.de/gt/main.asp?produkt=347504, where many people report the same problem. I also received an email today from a forum reader who reports quite similar problems...
I really think, Canon has a big big problem in manufacturing the sensors and they deliver them even if they are defective: I guess, they count on the fact that most of the users will not realize the sensor problems soon enough (most amateurs will use automatic functions which almost never really closes the aperture; with open aperture spots are not visible) and later Canon can always say that it's dust and not a production problem.
But it truly is a productions problem. So, if you buy a Canon digital camera, first and foremost take some manual/raw pictures with closed aperture and look at them on the computer screen in full size, evtl. with enhanced contrast. Better do this before paying... 
In forums I've read that there are some lucky people who received a body with a fully efficient sensor (after giving back the first or second one...). Anyway, a careful and deep test is always advisable.
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Cwmacgregor
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Posted: Fri Apr 29th, 2005 05:20 pm |
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Very annoying indeed. I would have thought a company like canon would be caught out sooner with this sort of practise
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jshphoto
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Posted: Tue May 3rd, 2005 02:46 pm |
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Have owned 10D which had some minor dust problems,
have recently bought 20D which has a lot of dust like your picture,
go to this web site you'll find all the answers.....
http://www.pbase.com/copperhill/ccd_cleaning
Its just dust on an electostatically charged surface,
as one professional to another I would suggest that f22 is not going to be your most effective aperture,
have found f9-14 to be the best when wanting max depth of field & when using dusty chip this still produces good quality images.
The 20D is a great improvement on 10D but you have to be very
particular to minimise occasions when dust can enter body,
ie always keep lens on & blow lens when changing etc.
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Cwmacgregor
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Posted: Wed May 11th, 2005 01:02 pm |
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Well I just got my new 20d and im very happy indeed. I checked with white paper and such and i found i have 8 little spots. Theyre not visible under anything but something like f32 but theyre there. Im not going to attempt to clean the sensor just yet as i dont think theres much need to .
Still pity they havent addressed this issue .
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photodir.net
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Posted: Sun May 15th, 2005 11:05 am |
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Have you tried cleaning the sensor? I have a canon 1d and find that every now and then I get spots. However, if you just use a squeezy hand blower you can blow these specs of dust off the sensor easily. Dust is attracted to the sensor because it is electrostatically charged... therefore you should check it often for dust and also be very careful when changing lenses. Do a google search for 'cleaning sensors' or something like that if you want more advice/info.
PhotoDir.net
http://www.photodir.net
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swainey
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Posted: Thu Jul 21st, 2005 01:02 pm |
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I bought a 20D about 6 months ago, was going for the 1D but thought the 20D would do as a take anywhere in the glovebox bit u kit. Like alot of users the sensor got filthy after using a big zoomy for wildlife and changing back to the 17/85 for landscapes. I say landscapes ...they were more like the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust with an enormous snowstorm going on!
After blowing with a bulb blower to try to clean it god knows how many times, i gave up and bought a load of cleaning swabs and fluid.
7 swabs later and i only have 2 little plebs left that i presume will be caught over the next few cleans.
I would recommend these cleaning kits for all users, but don'y just buy a pack of 10 ...get 3 packs, you'll need em!
...and the camera ...fabulous, but for serious users i would go for the expensive big bro, as i will when budgets allow.
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FotoArtUSA
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Posted: Sat Jul 23rd, 2005 01:44 pm |
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| I use two 20d's in my studio and had no problem with either one, however I have used other Canon cameras where I had some technical questions. My suggestion is that you get through to 1 800 828 4040 a usa number, I have been very impressed with the info and help I have recieved from them. Perhaps they can steer you to a more satisfying rsult from Canon. HR
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Jan
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Posted: Sat Jul 30th, 2005 03:53 pm |
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| I bought a Canon EOS 20D in February this year and have had problems with blobs appearing on the images which Canon said was dust, it went in for cleaning and came back with what looks like a bristle now appearing in the photographs. Canon's attitude has been particularly unhelpful until I put my complaint in writing and have now received a better response, but only time will tell whether the camera is OK. However I remain concerned about the matter of dust on the sensor, and Canons attitude. Canon say that it is inevitable that you will get dust and that the camera will keep having to go back for cleaning, they should have designed the camera in such a way that it was not as much of a problem, I remain concerned, anyone else have any experiences/advice re Canon and dust problems. Last edited on Sat Jul 30th, 2005 03:58 pm by Jan
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leysingi
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Posted: Sun Jul 31st, 2005 09:15 am |
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Hi ,
I was doing my research & had made up my mind to buy a 20 d but now after hearing all these problems with spots on the sensor and the ridiculous service that canon provided am not sure , But i have a question if not 20 D then which digital SLr except the two big bros of 20 D ?
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Jan
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Posted: Mon Aug 1st, 2005 11:22 am |
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Hi
I wish I'd checked websites for feedback I just read reviews in the press about the EOS 20D which were fantastic, the camera is great when it's working!!!!
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admin
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Posted: Tue Aug 2nd, 2005 12:28 am |
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There are sensor cleaning kits around but see this blog for details of some of the problems which can arise from doing this yourself.
http://dazza101.blogspot.com/2005/07/danger-of-cleaning-your-digital-slr.html
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leysingi
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Posted: Tue Aug 2nd, 2005 06:59 am |
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Jan wrote: Hi
I wish I'd checked websites for feedback I just read reviews in the press about the EOS 20D which were fantastic, the camera is great when it's working!!!!
Last edited on Tue Aug 2nd, 2005 07:59 am by admin
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waters
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Posted: Wed Aug 3rd, 2005 04:35 am |
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Hi Daniel, I had the very same problem and Ic ould fix it just blowing some air with a pump to teh sensor. Hope you can fix yours.
A
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